Leeds West Pool

I would like to answer your concerns and comments on how I have been handling the league since I took over from Mick. I hold my hands up and admit that I have made mistakes as did Mick and Ian before me but at least I have rectified the last mistake that I made.
As for my desire to take the league forward I think that so far I have achieved this. So far I have brought in several improvements to the league.
After the success of my first season the league has a reputation as a well run league and has enabled us to expand from 20 teams to 24 with other teams queuing up to join us next season which means we could expand to 3 league’s, who knows you might even get one of these playing the world rules that you so desperately want.
As for your comment that the meeting was farcical, since I took over, meetings are now more ordered with a proper agenda drawn up and adhered to with any other business at the end of the meeting instead of the free for all we used to have with important matters being forgotten because of all the interruptions we used to have.
Meeting minutes are now written down and every team gets a copy at the next meeting.
Every team gets a full copy of all the cup competition draws and where they are being played. The team cups are still drawn at meetings and the individuals are drawn on a Thursday by which ever team the Rifleman happens to be playing on that night and that includes the venues and that is what was agreed while Mick was secretary.
Every team gets a copy of all registered players in the league and updates at meetings of any new players.
Every team gets a copy of all the team’s addresses and a contact telephone number.
I have now started to inform you all by way of giving everyone a copy of all the players that they have entered in the knockouts to give you chance to change anything or enter additional players before I make the draws.
So if you think the above changes have taken the league backwards I would recommend that you ask the rest of the league if they agree with you as most of them seem to be very happy with me and have complimented me on the good work that I have done so far.
As for your other comments I’m glad that you respect me for taking the job on as it is a thankless task and I don’t appreciate being criticised on this website as neither did Mick and it was one of the reasons he decided to quit. You are still a young man and I hope that sometime in the future you have a job like this to do and then you might realise how hurtful and wrong your comments on this website are.
If you have something to say please say it at the meetings that’s what they are for and then you’d get an instant reaction from the other members of the league and wouldn’t have to wait for answers on this website.
You also say that I have implemented numerous rules without saying which ones, well let me tell you now that the only rules that I have implemented are the ones that have been passed at meetings in the past and I have put them down in writing as Mick had neglected to do this.
You say I have decided venues of important matches without you naming them, well the only one that I can think of is the captains final which needed a venue with 2 tables so I asked West Leeds if they would hold it and put a bit of food on and they agreed, so if I’ve forgotten any others please jog my memory as I’m getting old you know.
You seem to have a problem with the Continuation Cup I don’t know why? It was voted in and I even offered the league another vote on it at the Farnley meeting but everybody was happy to go ahead with it.
And as for reversing a decision as I have said at the beginning of this statement I was rectifying a mistake as I should not have allowed the proposal to be made or the vote to go ahead as I said in the letter on Sunday. In this league the referee’s decision is final, plus if you want to be democratic in a dispute such as this the two conflicting parties should put their arguments forward to the meeting and then proposals should be taken from the floor and not from the two conflicting parties.
So I hope the above comments answer your concerns about the way I am handling the league and also disprove your accusations that I am implementing things without the authority of the league members.
And finally yes I do care and would like to say that I don’t want to fall out with anybody over these comments so lets keep it friendly and work together to improve our league.

I am sorry Dave but I really am going to have to reply to this one.
You say that you have rectified a mistake that you made. I am saying that you have closed the door on the Globetrotters and you have started a precedence, being that you have abused your authority by overturning a democratic vote (15 ayes) and making a result stand that had blatant cheating in it. Not only that, you have made it virtually impossible for the Globetrotters to reply to this by saying we need to call an EGM if we disagree with your decision. I do disagree with it and I will explain why it is bad for the league what you have just done.
There is nothing wrong with protecting a referee. If he is a bad ref, like you say, you can always ask for another ref. The problem starts when the next ref is as bad, if not worse, than the one you just replaced. You have now closed the door on any bad refereeing decisions being brought up at a meeting. Basically, a referee can do what ever he wants and know that it will never get aired at a meeting.

I think you are wrong to stop the match being replayed. That would have been the fairest way out of this situation. If you wasn’t happy with the vote, then why didn’t you mention something to Bob? You should at least have given us an alternative instead of swinging the vote around in favour of the Sheepscar, which is basically what you have done. That is another reason why it is bad for the league. Votes can be overturned by the league secretary. Don’t you think you are getting a little bit too much power?

Oh, and I don’t mind mentioning this at the next meeting. As you know, we were away at an Interleague game but we tried our best to attend.

Cast

this is the problem we get when a league is run by 1 peron i have never in all my life heard of a majority vote being overturn by 1 person what gives him the right to do this it just means that when ever a vote is passed if dave doesnt like the out come he can take it upon his self to over turn it tut tut. is it yet another vendetta against old raynville/globe team

Firstly Dave would like to thank you for your response, and make it clear that i am not looking for conflict nor intending to be hurtful in any of my points but simply stating my feelings towards the league of today.

With regards to the point yopu made i am not a captain of my team i turn up to meetings to keep informed however i firmly believe any issues that need dealing with should be put forward by the team captain or their representative alone. The views i have issued in my post are simply my opinions as i see it and in now way assume that the opinion is shared by Tony, therefore did not feel the need to air this at the meeting. I certainly have no problem whatsoever stating my views as i'm sure you well know Dave.

With regards to the points you made a few of my concerns still exist.

The overturning of a majority vote is by far and away the main one. And this is not an intention to stir it up because we are 'mates' with the globe as thats simply not the case. I believe what has happened in this over dramatic and long running saga has set a precedent for future disputes. I can completely understand your opinion on it but the fact is whether you should have or not you did allow a vote to be taken on the outcome. That vote ruled in the majority favour of the Globe. End of story. Unless new evidence is brought to light to support claims made by one team a majority vote from teams sould be upheld. And if they decided oh i didnt want to vote for that - TOUGH. They should be listening better

With regards to continuation cup i wouldn't like to draw this out too much as its neither here nor there but you informed us that this was being added to the fixture list this season at the AGM. No vote was taken on this no views were requested at the time and nobody was informed prior to this. My main concern on this is it devalues the achievement of reaching a quarter final and is also a drain on funds. The opportunity to vote on this was given when there was no point in voting as it had already been implemented anyway. Again simply my opinion but i won't go on about it as it is quite irrelevant.

I would finally like to state to you Dave this was never a personal attack on you nor do i wish you to step down as secratary of the league as you have brough a lot of good things and ideas to the league. I simply believe somebody should be installed to help in a supporting role so these decisions are not placed on the shoulders of one person good or bad. Once again apologies for any upset!

I would like to comment on your replies but at risk of repeating my self no one seems to be grasping the situation. A precedence was set years ago when a vote decided that the referee's decision was final in order to stop having arguments at meetings resulting in the fact that their decisions could not be overturned. After that meeting I was inundated with members of the league informing me of that fact. So thinking on the subject I had to make this decision reluctantly. Also after further thought I came to the conclusion that I should not have let Bob make that proposal as his team was one of the conflicting parties and any proposals should have come from the floor. As for closing the door on bad refereeing decisions this matter is not closed yet as both teams have brought accusations against each other and these will be dealt with at the next meeting, but as things stand I cannot allow a whole game to be replayed. I'm sorry if you think I am abusing my authority but I certainly don't see it like that as I think I'm just doing my job the fairest way I can and to the best of my ability for the good of the league. But I did give you an option to call an E.G.M. and change the rules for the future and/or have a vote of no confidence in myself and Brian I don't see why you deem this as virtually impossible as you got 15 votes in favour on that illegal vote. And that vote was illegal according to league rules and that is why I was able to deem it null and void but I certainly have no authority to overturn a valid vote. Thanks for your response Rob and Debs I hope you wasn't intimating that I have a vendetta against the Globe as I was one of the people who voted to keep the Globe in the league when Mick tried to have them expelled.

here,here,rob & cast firstly i would like 2 add my disappointment at only finding out about the decision being overturned at the meeting,and not being informed prior,secondly i dont remember voting in infinate powers 2 dave at the agm 2 make decisions he feels fit,it seems 2 me we have a power mad sec as his call sign on this site is the guvn

Bob let me just say that no decision was overturned as it was declared null and void due to it being against league rules as it was pointed out to me by many members of the league. I'm sure a team of your stature in this league would not want to contravene league rules. I would also like to say that you was not informed anything ! at the meeting as you couldn't be bothered to turn up as you had more important things to do even though you knew there was an important issue to discuss concerning your team and your understudy didn't stop long either even though he has a job to do concerning this league, whats more why should you be informed prior to the meeting of any decisions that I have made, do you think your team should be given special consideration because you're the champions. I have already explained the reasons for my decisions on this website twice and I am not about to do so again. So if you and your team mates can't understand plain facts and want to spit your dummies out because you have not got your own way for once, so be it but Iforewarn you I am not Mick and I don't have a bad heart and I wont roll over and take any **** from anyone. So if you want to carry on arguing about this issue call the E.G.M. and we'll see what the outcome is. But if your not going to call it please stop whingeing about this decision on the website. This is the last time you will hear from me on this website and all future conversations with myself will be at league meetings as it should be face to face.

I know you said you wanted to liven things up a bit on the website Rob, well you certainly did that.
Sorry Bob/Cast but I would just like to say a few words in favour of Dave's decision to make his original
decison to replay the match null and void. There HAVE been some eyebrows raised over the last few weeks about
his decsion to replay by a fair few people in the league. I dont think there is any doubt in my mind
that some people and I have to include myself in that, were a bit surprised by the decision.
To my mind, when there have been disputes in a match, it has generally been the case to overturn
just those games in dispute rather than the whole match..surely not all nine games were being disputed..?
And by the way I was NOT at the meeting when the vote to replay was carried.

tornadoTone wrote:I know you said you wanted to liven things up a bit on the website Rob, well you certainly did that.
Sorry Bob/Cast but I would just like to say a few words in favour of Dave's decision to make his original
decison to replay the match null and void. There HAVE been some eyebrows raised over the last few weeks about
his decsion to replay by a fair few people in the league. I dont think there is any doubt in my mind
that some people and I have to include myself in that, were a bit surprised by the decision.
To my mind, when there have been disputes in a match, it has generally been the case to overturn
just those games in dispute rather than the whole match..surely not all nine games were being disputed..?
And by the way I was NOT at the meeting when the vote to replay was carried.

Just a few words in response to your comments Tony.
I think you are missing the point that I am trying to get across. Whether the vote was legal or not, any type of vote at a meeting is usually ‘final and binding’. If Dave wanted to overturn a vote, then he is the one that should call an EGM and change the rules on the voting system at meetings.

We also need to ascertain what is and isn’t a legal vote. A vote is a vote so far as I am concerned. I don’t believe that people come to these meetings and just start sticking their hands up because everyone else is, rather than listening to what they are voting on.

This league is lacking a proper set of rules. I have always said that. You cannot call the ‘Old EPA Rules’ the league rules and then just have a few additions to these, they are just the playing rules. This league needs a Constitution and General Rules.

Cheers, Cast

Ps. Bob’s understudy will reply to the league Secretary’s post when I have a little bit more time. I do not just dive in and write anything in these forums. I write my posts in Word, read them over and then post them. Oh, and I never need to swear to get a point across.

i just wanted to say that this is getting totally out of hand. there is absolutly no need for swearing and name calling especialy from someone in such an important roll. as for people not attending meeting because they either cant be bothered or have more important things to do, you would think a league secretary should be supportive of his members playing at either inter county or county level, and how come it was ok for the sheepscar to put such an important meeting off to a later date but not the globe. now now boys lets play fair after all its not every day a vote goes for the globe, i forgot we cant have that can we.Also i would just like to add that brian is nobodys understudy you appoint him to do a job( in his abscence i might add ) that he does well with no thanks or praise and then ridicule him . seems to me that someone needs to do some hard thinking

I been away for couple of weeks and think that you should think about this EGM been called ASAP to get it sorted once and for all coz got a bit out of hand now and seems like your differances need sorting out soon as poss. Only my opinion.

here here Craig. if it hadnt been for all this appeal/cctv rubbish it would have been sorted out ages ago! make the right decision so called/self appointed guvnor! how can you go back on a majority decision by the league? its either a vote or your in charge. which is it?